Zero Point – summary and thoughts

14 01 2014

Please summarize and make personal comments about these first two concepts:

1st bridge 97-102 due: Thursday 16th of January

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31 responses

14 01 2014
6

The First and most basic reason for nihilism is found in the direct, logical implications of naturalism’s primary propositions. matter is all there is and it is eternal, and the cosmos operates with a uniformity of cause and effect in a closed system. these mean that a human being is part of the system. Though they may not understand the implications for human freedom.
first reason naturalsim truns into nihilism is that naturalism does not supply a basis on which a person can act significantly. rather, it denies the possibility of a self-determining being who can choose on the basis of an innate self-conscious character. we are machines–determined or capricious. we are not persons with self-consciousness and self-determination

15 01 2014
8

1st bridge: Basically, nihilism denies the meaming of human actions since they are determined by universe in the closed system. Thus, naturalism turns into nihilism. Nihilism also denies that human has free will, beacuse we can not choose where to born or born into which family. It also illustrates that one event happens will cause another event happen (chain effect). Chance relates to absurdity because we don’t know when and why it happends, which makes human capricious. In my opinion, our will is not originally ours but built by education, history, family and environment. But if no one tells us what to do when we were born, we grew physically and mentally free from others, there will be no civilization and development for us. So we do have our free will choose no to do bad things based on morality. However, if we do something bad and we say that is because something else happened before that let us to do so, in this case, we are easy to escape from responsibility due to something else that forces us to do bad things, which becomes an excuse. Then, another question emerges, if we do not know what caused us to decide, then how can me know that something forces us to decide without knowing it?

15 01 2014
9

A summary of pages ninety seven to one hundred and two is the introduction to Nihilism. Nihilism is from Naturalism but in a sense is more ‘ hardcore ’. Nihilist believe that we are only machines with the idea that we have a free will when in reality everything for ourselves is already determined by the choices we have made and therefore laid out a path of where we will go from there. Such as if one were to rob a bank then following that they could be prosecuted and put into jail or not get caught, this is all effected in a closed system therefore there is no outside source to change or effect the outcome. Personally I don’t believe this, but I can see how someone else would and could. Like every worldview of course there are flaws and things that are unexplainable, but like every worldview faith is required for what cannot be explained. I would like to learn more about Nihilism and try to understand it better for now I only know as much as the introduction provided.

15 01 2014
20

we are machines-determined or capricious. we are not persons with self-consciousness and self-determination.we are no longer a flower in the seamless fabric of the universe,but a chance wart on the smooth skin of the impersonal.chance is causeless,purposeless,directionless.I think Must not relative necessity and chance.we always think something must have.We look at things, and not the accidental as inevitable.Correct understanding of the dialectical relations of necessity and chance.I think there are no necessity on the world ,just have chance.

16 01 2014
5

1
The reason for nihilism is the implicaction of naturalism’s primary propositions. Firstly, matter is all there is and it is eternal. Secondly, the cosmos operates with a uniformity of cause and effect in a closed system. The point is, human being is a part of system.
Someone thinks that people’s actions are self-determined, author used the sandwich example.But lot of people think that’s not that simple.The issue of human freedom goes deeper than these naturalists see. To be sure i can do anything i want, but what i want is the result of past states of affairs over whichultimately i had no control.
The problemis if the universe is truly closed, then its activity can be governed only from within.There world seeem only only one explanation for change: the present state of affairs must govern the future state.
The objection that in an Einsteinian universe of time-relativity simultaneity is possible to define and causal links are impossible to prove is beside the point.
Moreover, some events are more predictable than others, butnone is uncertain. Each event must come to be.
The only way change can come is by a force mobing to make that change, and he only way that force can come is if it is moved by another force. Thereis no break in this chain.
We generally perceive ourselves as free agents. But our perception is an illusion. We just don’t know what “caused” us to decide.
Freedom must be a determinacy unrecognized. A person’s selfconsciousness is only an epiphenomenon.
Human beings are onscious machines without the ability to affect theri own destiny or do anything significant; therefore, homan beings as valuable beings are dead.
However, some naturalists would deny that i went wrong when i said that the only explanation for change is the continuity of cause and effect.
Either chance is the inexorable proclivity of reality to happen as it does, appearing to be chance because we do not know the reason for what happens or it is absolutely irrational.
Chance is causeless, purposeless, directionless.A chance event is causeless, but it itself is a cause and is now an integral part of the closed universe.
To summarize, naturalism does not supply a basis on which a person can act significantly.We’re notpersons with self consciousness and self determination.

16 01 2014
1

Nihilism derives from Naturalism. It is rather more of a feeling than a philosophy. When you feel like nothing matters and like the universe is pointless, you are feeling like a Nihilist. Nihilist’s believe nothing has meaning. Nihilism believe that the world operates in a closed system and that the cosmos operate with no uniformity. They, along with the Naturalists, think that our world happened by chance. Nihilistic beliefs are when you can know the answer, but not the questions (or vise versa).

16 01 2014
13

The first reason naturalism turns into nihilism is through the implication of naturalism’s primary propositions themselves. They are “(1) matter is all there is and it is eternal, (2) the cosmos operates with a uniformity of cause and effects, and (3) human beings are complex machines whose personality is a function of highly complex chemical and physical properties not yet understood.” To naturalist, humans are free to make decisions. They are self-conscious, self-determined and can act significantly. They can choose to eat or stay hungry. It is totally up to them. But to nihilist, that is just the appearance. Human is a part of the cosmos and it also operates in the cause and effect system. Whatever human decides to do, it might appear as freedom of choice, but the fact is that their actions are only the effects of the previous causes in the cosmos that they have no control over. Thus, human being is only a “complicated toy of impersonal cosmic forces.” They are conscious, but do not have the ability to affect their destiny do anything significant. Naturalists also argue that cause and effect is not the only cause of change and chance does introduce new things into the universe. That is freedom. Nihilists admit that chance does exist and push the universe in a new direction but it is “causeless, purposeless, directionless.” Thus, chance is absurd.

16 01 2014
15

Nihilisim is a “negation of everything”. There is no meaning of anything. Everything is just kind of there with no explanation. From the point of view of a Nihilist there is no philosophy, no value, and no knowledge.
Naturalism became a bas for Nihilism.

16 01 2014
11

the first bridge necessity and change
Read the book, i can tell that nihilism don’t really care about god,”in a closed universe the possibility that some things need not be, that others are possible, is not possible.” Nihilism said there are something that it’s not possiable to be there, for example, that god is possiable not be there and hunman is possiable not be there, they are talking about the chances we can get it or not.

16 01 2014
16

Nihilism is the natural child of naturalism. Nihilism derives from the basic naturalism principles; matter is all there is and the cosmos operates with a uniformity of cause and effect in a closed system. Nihilists are diluded about having free will. Nietzsche says, the acting mans delusion about himself, his assumption that free will exists is also part of the calculating mechanism. The present most cause the future because the present state of affairs reflects on the future. Some events in life are predictable because the past linked events but others are completely unpredictable because it’s a closed system. In a closed universe freedom must be a determinacy unrecognized. To a nihilist, a human being is nothing but a toy to the universe. According to skinner, a person does not act on the world, the world acts on him. Because of chance, according to naturalists and nihilists, we (humans) exist. Chance can either be something we don’t completely understand yet or something irrational. Chance then does not allow a person to be self conscious AND free. naturalism turns into nihilism when self determination does not exist. We are not conscious. I think nihilism is a cool concept but could never really get it in my own mindset because it’s just too crazy. Nihilism probably leads to anarchy which is chaotic.

16 01 2014
19

The first bridge says about necessity and chance. It agrees with the naturalist view that matter exists and they say that it is eternal, they also say that the cosmos operates in uniformity and that human beings make part of the giant system. The life of human beings os determined and they have their destiny because it is what is necessary. They also believe that everything happens by chance, and they say that making chance another name for our ignorance of the forces of determinsm.

16 01 2014
23

The first and most basic reason for nihilism is found in the direct,logical implications of naturalism,what they believe is that matter is all there is and it is eternal and the cosmos operates with uniformity of cause and effect in a closed system. This means that human being is part of the system. At the previous chapter we saw in 3 of chapter four: human beings are complex machines whose personality is a function of highly complex chemical and physical properties not yet understood.their argument goes like this . Every event in the universes is caused by a pervious state of affairs. Those human beings who are obviously self conscious and, it would appear,self determined can act significant and be held responsible for their actions. In a closed universe the possibility that some things need to be, that others are possible,is not possible. There is no break in this chain,from eternity future,forever and ever,amen.in other words the first reason naturalism turns into nihilism is that naturalism does not apply a basis on which a person can act significantly.rather,it denies the possibility of a self determining being who can choose on the basis of an innate self conscious character. We are machines determined or capricious. We are not persons with self consciousness and self determination.

16 01 2014
17

Page 97-102 opens up by briefly explaining what nihilism is about. I personally believe that nihilism is brutal and sad. The fact that they believe how God doesnt existand therefore nothing else matters tells us how nihilists find life completely meaningless and hopeless. Even if you believe that there is no God, people could live a”good life” by helping and loving one another. Thus I believenihilism is sad.

16 01 2014
7

The first bridge mainly talks about necessity and chance. From the logical implications we can get that first, matter is all there is and it is eternal. Second, the cosmos operates with a uniformity of cause and effect in a closed system. They tell us the system includes human being. It also has a problem is that the activity can only be governed only from within. Anyway, the main topic of the first bridge is chance is causeless, purposeless, directionless. To summarize, naturalism does not supply a basis on which a person can act significantly and we are not persons with self consciousness and self-determination.

16 01 2014
14

The first and most basic reason forbilihism is found in the direct logical implications of naturalism a primary propositions.matter is all there is and it is eternal the cosmos operation with I uniformity of cause and effect in a close system human being are complex machines whose personality is physical properties not yet understood still many naturalists try to hold on to human freedom with the closed system same event are more predictable than other but none is uncertain each event most came to be in a close universe the possipobility that same thing need not be that athers are possible or is not possible in closed universe in other words freedom must be a determinal uncrecognozed chance is cause less purposeless directionless

16 01 2014
4

Nihilism is a belief where life is thought of as hopeless partly because it seems like fate will b fate in the end anyway. Nihilists believe that human beings are nothing but machines that aren’t fully understood and only the world can act on them not the other wAy round.
It also is believed that chance is doesn’t open the universe to reason, but to absurdity.

16 01 2014
21

This chapter is talking about nihilism, they explains that it is more a feeling than a philosophy, it is a denial that anything is valuable not even in the reality of existence. they also explains that Nihilism derives from naturalism, because thinking like a naturalist we can say that (1) matter is all there is and it is eternal (2) the cosmos operates with a uniformity of cause and effect in a closed system, which implies that a naturalist believes that man is a machine that is made up of chemicals that we will never fully understand, they believe that event in the universe is caused by a previous event. so i can finish by saying that nihilism believes that everything revolves around them and that they are just there without any specific purpose but everything just happened to work together for things to be the way they are

16 01 2014
2

The Naturalism leads to Nihilism when consistently pressed to the logic of its presuppositions. One of the “bridges from Naturalism to Nihilism” is “the great cloud of unknowing.The basic argument concerns the justification of knowledge in light of one’s world view. The most basic argument, is that if human faculties are evolved only through natural selection there is no rational foundation for our knowing.

16 01 2014
12

Nihilism to me is one of those beliefs to me that doesnt really require faith because alot of people in that belief just dont really care. Its also a really dangerous way to believe in cause if you dont care you end up like those people that just go to a school and start shooting at students. In some ways its good cause you pretty much dont care about anything so you can pretty much do whatever you want. So in alot ways nihilism is for people like terrorist or emotionally dead people. But in being a nihilist you have everything to lose and nothing to gain

16 01 2014
3

the first bridge : nihilism is found in the direct, logical implications of naturalism’s primary prospositions. From the logical implications we can get, matter is all there and it is enternal. Second, the cosmos operates with a uniformity of cause and effect in a closed system. the main thing the first brige try to tell us that in nihilism , God doesn’t exist and nothing is matter so the life of human is meaningless , hopeless. Naturalism is the step to nihilism

17 01 2014
22

It starts by telling us the concept of human nature which are: matter is all there is and it is eternal and the cosmos operates with a uniformity of cause and effect in a close system. They believe that everything is worthless that there is no god and everything that happened just happened , there is no purpose everything is there just like that.

17 01 2014
18

A summary of what was assigned to read is that the Nihilistic view is one where everything is predetermined only that in the human mind one believes the choice was his and his alone to make. There is the idea of free will where there really is none. In addition the Nihilist acknowledges that there is no point, in life. We are simply here to be here. At the end there is no purpose. Furthermore, Nihilism branches off from Naturalism but is more hopeless and creates chaos.

20 01 2014
16

The second bridge, the great cloud of unknowing.
The idea that the universe is a closed system is controversial to the nihilist and naturalist because there’s no real way of knowing whether we’re just a “hologram” or really real. If our minds are not reliable because they’re just a mind of a superior monkey, then can anything we say really be trusted or credible at all? Every argument we make, may have a counter argument because maybe our argument isn’t credible, but maybe the counter argument isn’t as well. Because there’s no way to actually prove it. No one can actually be a true nihilist because they “know” basic things, like how to recognize people and to boil water and such. Naturalists picture themselves in a box, but to even know that they’re in a box there has to be someone or something on the outside letting them know. But since there’s nothing or no one according to naturalism, there’s no way to transcend the box. 😦 Naturalists can never really knowwww the truth, they might devote their life to searching but they’d never find it. Sometimes real nihilism can be a disease like schizophrenia or daydreaming. But the thing is, we can know things and things do exist for us to know, we just have to find out why that is. Naturalism/Nihilism is super complicated but it basically has a lot of holes which makes it inconclusive and not credible, but is anything really credible?

20 01 2014
10

The first and most basic reason for nihilism is found in the direct , logical implications of naturalisms primary propositions. matter is all there is and it is eternal ,and the cosmos operates with a uniformity of cause and effect in a closed system. in a close universe the possibility that some things need not be , that others are possible , is not . For the only way change can come is by a force moving to make that change, and the only way that force can come is if it is moved by another force, ad infinitum.

21 01 2014
13

The second bridge: the great cloud of unknowing
Knowledge and perception are not necessarily true. They arise from functioning of matters. But matters function by nature of their own and will not be able to differentiate between hallucinations from reality. Naturalists use various methods such as scientific inquiry, pragmatic tests, etc. to try to do so but they are not necessarily true.
Cosmos is a closed system and nothing exists outside the system itself. Humans are the only conscious beings in the system. Nihilism argues that human’s mind has evolved from the lower animals and should not be trustworthy. We cannot trust our logical sense to make an argument since it is not necessarily true. Any argument to check the legitimacy of an argument is “itself an argument that might be mistaken.” We do not know if our knowing is right or wrong. This is so called “epistemological nihilism.”
If one takes epistemological nihilism seriously, to him or her, nothing is real even them. They cannot cope and cannot function as a human being anymore. In our world, we call it schizophrenia, hallucination, fantasizing, etc. without realizing that it is epistemological nihilist.

21 01 2014
14

the second bridge the great cloud of unknowing in naturalism holds that perception and knowledge are either identical with or byproduct of the brain for naturalism nothing exist outside the system itself means there is no God deceiving or non deceiving perfect personal or impersonal what we need for such certainty is the existence of some rational spirit outside both ourselves and nature from which our own rationality could derive
the way to known it is right simple you have obeyed the laws of logic if they are true because they are self evident in the naturalistic framework people pursue a knowledge that forever recedes before the we can never know

the third bridge is and ought . many naturalists so far as i know are very moral people. they are not thieves they do not tend to be libertines. many are faithful husbands and wives .naturalist the world is merely it does not provide humanity with a sense of oughtness

21 01 2014
landsvw

the summary is incomplete… read carefully!

21 01 2014
9

In summary pages one hundred and three to one hundred and eleven further explained the view of a Nihilist. It goes to say how a Nihilist believes that one cannot simply believe in reason, for where does that come from, how can one say that what they think or believe is true or right or correct. How can one trust what our brain has to tell us, our morals, and our entire logic system. For one can stand to say that a chimpanzee is just equally as smart as us but we just don’t know. Therefore with a Nihilist they must simply trust that through evolution and science our brains have been chemically designed and transformed to be smarter than that of a chimpanzee. In addition it says that if a Nihilist reaches the ultimate Nihilistic view that nothing matters, that we are nothing, and that our existence is just of a mere combination of chemicals, and molecules and there is no reason for anything they must cease to live for what is the point; and then they reach the point of being unable to cope. Nihilists live in a world where nothing is explained for there is no reason for anything, so one can question how, or what are we doing since there is nothing. In my opinion I don’t exactly agree with the view of the author’s point on a Nihilists I understand the basics and what being a Nihilist means, but I don’t agree with a Nihilist being unable to cope. Many people do many things for no reason. That may make no sense, but for example if I were to be a Nihilist and believe that I am nothing, that this life is nothing, sure I might as well murder myself, but at the same time why not just go along with the flow. Why not just do what everyone else is doing even though I wouldn’t believe any of it had a meaning, I mean I would believe nothing mattered anyways. So why not? And in my eyes isn’t that coping? They’re still living, their still doing things even though they don’t believe any of it has a point. Or maybe my understanding of Nihilism is incorrect therefore my understanding on being unable to cope as a true Nihilist is tainted.

21 01 2014
landsvw

so, ‘something’ in a coping nihilist keeps them going… why?

21 01 2014
21

The second bridge titled the great cloud of unknowing explains the presupposition that cosmos is a closed system. They explain by saying that by saying that if a person was the result of a supernatural force there is no way they would know if what they believe is true or not. The third bridge titled is and ought to be talks about how most naturalist are usually normal people with good behaviors and personalities but the problems might be that they dont know how to explain their point of view. the loss of meaning which they say is they way we all end in a total despair of ever seeing ourselves, the world and others as in a way significant, nothing has a meaning.

21 01 2014
8

2nd bridge: Nihilism argues that there is no way to prove what we know is truth or illusion. Naturalism believes in matter, science and logic. But these things exist there but have no purpose to lead human to get to know them (or the right thing about them). The reason why human believe is probably the thought spinning out from human’s own brains. Thus, we can not know whether it is truth or illusion. The only thing we can have is our faith. We must have faith in laws that they relate to and match with the objective, external universe. It is a paradox that naturalists believe in science and logic, but these could be illusion,too.
3rd bridge: For naturalists, there is always is not ought. Because according to them, whatever exists is right. Thus what values exist are true values. However, cultural anthropoligists say moral values are relative to one’s culture, which makes is equals to ought. It is also a confilct because cultural rebels have different moral standard which is their ought should be is. So it breaks the equation. Human needs a moral standard to measure moral values in ourselves and others. But there does not exist one, which leads to ethical nihilism, a feeling of guilty.




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