FREEDOM – This is due October 24th by 3rd period

21 10 2013

What is freedom?

One time I had a student tell me that “this (the USA) is a free country, so I don’t have to do what you tell me…”

Is he or she right?

These 3 types of law were mentioned in the Ravi Zacharias lecture:

Theonomous – God’s law

Heteronomous – A law (or laws) given from a ruling person or class above the common people.

Autonomous – self law

What about a combination?

Which is the USA?

Which kind of system is your country (don’t mention the country)?

What is the relation between a student and a  parent/teacher/coach, and which law, if any, does it fall under? Why?

How and why should the student respond to a reasonable request or command by an adult? How do you know if it is reasonable?

1 or more paragraphs answering these questions by Thursday morning, 3rd period

Remember: Use your assigned number and email.

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25 responses

22 10 2013
16

I agree that the US is a free country, but it is not valid to use it as an argument if one just chooses not to listen to another. The US is a free country, we have the freedom of speech, press, and to assemble. Of course we also have free will not to do what someone tells us, but the US Constitution does not say that we have the freedom to not listen to our superiors. When a student enlists in school, they are agreeing that they will obey the teacher, because the teacher is the superior in the situation. There are inappropriate situations in which the student should respond no, but other than that, parents/teachers/coaches have the authority and students are there to learn from their wisdom.
Ravi Zacharias talked about three different kinds of law, theonomous, heteronomous, and autonomous. The USA falls under the heteronomous category, because the government made the laws for the people to follow. My country also follows a heteronomous law because it similarly follow the USA’s government structure.

22 10 2013
9

Freedom is being able to make your own choices. I believe that he or she is right. America is a free country of course there are laws and rules applied all around us but at the same time he or she does not necessarily need to follow them. Nor does he or she need to listen to anyone else. Of course this is not to say that they shouldn’t follow the laws and rules or listen to anyone else because those laws are there to protect us and help us be safe and make the best decisions possible. A combination could be Theonomous ( God’s law ) with Heteronomous ( A law [ or laws ] given from a ruling person or class above the common people. This would be what I believe many Christians, Catholics, Presbyterians, etc. are living by now a days. They follow the rules of their religion while also obeying the laws of the United States. Furthermore another combination could be Heteronomous, and Autonomous ( self-law ) in which one would not follow God’s law but their own and the laws given to them by the United States. The United States is a combination of all three. Some people don’t listen to the laws of the United States in which makes them Autonomous, others follow Theonomous and Heteronomous. Others follow only Heteronomous, while some only follow Theonomous. I believe any given combination of the three types of laws can be found in the United States. I believe the relation between students and a parent or teacher or coach would fall under the Heteronomous law. This is because the student usually is expected to follow the parent or teacher or coaches rules. Firstly, I don’t believe a student has to respond to a reasonable request made by any parent, teacher or coach if they do not want to. They are their own person and can do what they want not matter what someone demands of them is reasonable or not. Typically in this society now a days it would be expected that a student would mindlessly obediently follow the parents, teacher, or coaches’ reasonable request in a timely, orderly, and respectful manner. One would know if a request is reasonable based on their own mentality and mind set. To one person it could be reasonable that their parent would ask them to do all the dishes of the household no matter if the dishes were theirs or not. Another person could think that, that was extremely unreasonable because they didn’t create any of the dishes. Universally though there is now “ common ” knowledge ( which personally I feel isn’t really that common ) in which what is “ correct ” or socially acceptable in which in sense is reasonable. Ultimately though a request if often defined as reasonable if it does not harm anyone, is safe, and is more or less for the benefit for the person themselves or for others.

23 10 2013
landsvw

haha! I HATE dishes! But, interestingly enough, the first poster (fellow student of course) disagreed with you… So we have have a discussion! Let’s see what others say! 🙂

23 10 2013
6

I think freedom is what people have and can do whatever they want to do.
I disagree with he or she
Theonomous and Heteronomous.
USA is heteronomouse, theonomous and autonomous in my opinion.
My country is heteronomous.
Relation between student and parent/teacher/coach, is adult and child and I think it’s heteronomous.
They should respond by doing whatever the teacher or an adult says and why should we do it? Of course he or she, the one who gives you reasonable request is older than you.
How do I know if it is reasonable or not? I think every words we say has a reasonble.

23 10 2013
8

  Well, his idea is not quite right. In my opinion, freedom is a paradox. Because people need to move toward greate organization, strict legislation and increasing control to achieve freedom. Think in this way, if a person can do whatever he wants, he would probably commit crimes because he thinks what he does is right. As a result, the person will be threw into jail. Is he considered to be free? The answer is absolute no! The three laws mentioned in the Ravi Zacharias lecture including theonomous, heteronomous and autonomous are a conbination of how this universe works. These laws are divided step by steo. God’s law is superior. He created the universe, so everything is under his ruling. When comes to a country, a country needs a chairman, president, or king to govern the whole country. Then, the country is heteronomous. As individuals, we have autonomous law. That is a self-law based on our worldviews and morality. How you see the world determines how you define those three laws. As a country, USA is heteronomous. However, if you see the universe, the country and the people as a inseparable unity, then, not only USA is a combination of those three laws but also any other country in this world, including my home country.
  Mainly, a parent or a teacher is the guardian of a student since he/she will teach student what is right to do. In this case, it may fall under heteronomous law since a parent and a teacher has the authority over a student. Besides, a student needs someone to guide his way through his life until he can be responsible for what he does due to his innocence and young age. In return, the student should respond to a resonable request and command by an adult. The student has to live under an adult’s protection because the fact is that the student does not have the ability to making a living by himself. When the student reaches 18 or above, which is the legal age, he could “break” heteronomous law but is still bounded by autonomous law.

23 10 2013
3

We can’t deny that American is a free country. But of course there are many rules and laws in American. Some are nesscary to obey, some are not. You can choose not to listen to your teacher but you may face the bad consequence. I think USA is the combination of these laws you mention above because Americans are the mixture of many religions and races so we can’t determine it. My country is under the Heteronomous laws, the government make the laws for us to follow. As i was saying we coudn’t determine which laws are the relationship between a student and a parent/teacher/coach in US but in my country it follows the Heteronomous category mostly. It’s our traditional we much show show our respect with older people and much not argue with them. There are some situations which we have out choice but other than that we much obey our parent/teacher/coach like when they told us to do something against the laws.

23 10 2013
21

Freedom means is the power or right to act, speak, or think as one wants without any restraint.so using that definition i can say that the US or any other country on this planet can have complete freedom for everyone.
Yes in the US we have the freedom of speech, religion and of press. which clearly shows that the freedom to to act as you want is excluded, because if we all acted as we wanted without control or rules to obey the world will be out of control, even God didn’t give us the freedom to do whatever we want, which is why we have the 10 commandments.So this means that there is no country in this universe that is fully free.
I think the US falls under heteronomous( a law given from a ruling person or class above the common people),but again because it is known to be a free country people will act or think as if they have complete freedom, which tends to make it a mixture with the others( autonomuous and theonomous) but these people usually finds themselves in trouble. This also goes for my country, we follow the rules set by the government.
Parents, teachers and coaches also falls under heteronomous, because when you decide to attend a school or a team you also are accepting the rules that they have, and there will even be consequences if you break them, it is slightly different when it comes to parents as they are family and because they love you so much, they can even let you make some of your own choices.

23 10 2013
5

I agree with the statement, however, although USA is a free country and our behavior does not depend on others words, there still exists an invisible rule in the society. A lot of people claim that laws, religion, and morality are restraining our behavior, yet, they can all be concluded into the law of causality. In a free country, no one can force you to do whatever you don’t like as long as you’re not in jail. But you have to know, if you refuse taking a test you’ll get a zero, and if you don’t obey the law you’ll be brought to justice. That’s why people’s can’t just do whatever they want in this “free” country,
because they know they’ll pay for it. So actually people don’t have to obey other’s words, or there won’t be so many incorrigible criminals in our society. But they must take the consequences for whatever they choosed. So the key point is to make the best choice for yourself instead of effected by other’s words.
I think if the society is based on Theonomous, then the pope would be in the highest position and became a dictator. I prefer the
combination of heteronomous and autonomous, since Heteronomous is too rigor and Autonomous is too lax.
USA is based on a heteronomous system for its sound legislation. My country uses a heteronomous system too.
The relationship between a student and a parent or teacher may be Heteronomous or Autonomous or both. Since they may make rules
for kids but also may draw no boundaries for them.
I think normally a student would accept the request or command. The request should at least be legal.

23 10 2013
23

First of all freedom is to state of being free where you aren’t being controlled by anyone.for me I think this student was telling truth, i can imagine he didn’t really get this kind of freedom, I can relate this my self because this usually happens to internation student were they aren’t used this kind of system! I can give example, usually when these student come here,they start to doing whatever that comes they mind sometimes they end in big trouble. This leads them to get expelled, were they thought they were doing the right.they are used to have like father or mother on they side to give them advise on how to behavior. What I’m trying to say some of the students don’t really know how to use that freedom they have because they don’t usually see the benefit of coming to a country like this. When it comes to relation between student and teacher, I don’t think you would include a parent for them they have done they are part. For student and teacher the relation it should more, although they can’t replace you parents but the teacher is another guardian where you go ask him advise because the teacher is another resource to success because the teacher or professor will help you through out the path to reach your goal. In summary, freedom is an innate right,humans are born with.Also our right of freedom must never harm any other human We must respect freedom of every one in the society.This way we can enjoy our freedom through our life.

23 10 2013
15

Freedom might be different. It might be the freedom of words, freedom of movement, freedom of actions,spiritual or religious freedom, or anything else. But in any situation there will be laws, either government laws or moral. If we didn’t have such a thing as a law then there will be no control of people and the whole world would become a chaos.
Every person has their own set of moral laws that form their character. The same way the Government laws form a country
I think USA is a mix of Theonomous and Heteronomous. People here are following government rules strictly most likely even of they are against their moral laws. But also people’s moral laws are based on the government laws before their own believes.
In my country people’s priority is moral believes. Government has a set of laws, but people choose whatever is better for them from their point of view.
In a relationship between student and a teach in my opinion it’s Autonomous laws. Every student has a different relationship with their teacher, For example some students call Mrs Deck ” a grandma” , when when i come to her I don’t feel comfortable doing that so i just call her Mrs Deck.

24 10 2013
2

Freedom is the state of being free or at liberty rather than in confinement or under physical restraint. I think this student is right. The US is a free country, we have the freedom. We don’t have to do what the people tell me. But if we don’t do the things by us superior, we will have the bad consequence. I think U.S is under the Theonomous and Heteronomous. My country is under the Hateronomous. I think the relationship between student and parent/teacher/ coach are Heteronomous. In the school we need to follow the rules what teacher say. The student respond to a reasonable request or command by an adult, because the student has to something by the adult’s protection so the student does not have the ability to do lots of things by themself.

24 10 2013
13

Freedom is the ability to talk, think, and act freely without restraint from others. However, freedom does have its own limitation that is freedom cannot give people the rights to limit other people’s freedom. For example, a free person does not have the right to force others not to express their own ideas and obey him since freedom does include freedom of speech.
Each country has its own law to ensure the best for its citizens. People practice their freedom within the laws of the country that they are living in. I think that the student in this case is right, as long as she does not break any laws and rules (of the classroom) and is willing to take the consequences if she does.
There are 3 types of law: theonomous, heteronomous, and autonomous. I think that the USA is the combination of theonomous and heteronomous. We do have certain moral standards set by our government as well as we do have God to help guide us in the right direction.
My country is heteronomous.
The relation between a student and a parent/teacher/coach is combination of autonomous and heteronomous relationship. Parents, teachers and coaches set rules and certain moral standards that they expect the student to follow while giving the student the possibility to reason his or her own actions.
The student should listen and obey a reasonable request or command by an adult. He or she can use his or her own reasons (autonomous) to know if the request is reasonable and is within the allowed moral standards.

24 10 2013
18

I do agree USA is a free country, but I don;t think in this case of a student arguing against the teacher is connected with theonomous, since the teacher is not telling him/her to do something in God’s name or for God. And since USA is a free country, teacher is always viewed as a occupation, that’s why student is always using autonomous to arguing against school, they may have the rights, because in autonomous, no one has rights to tell someone to do something. But considering this case is happening in school, it make this case kind of a autonomous and heteronomous combination. I think it all comes to how you view this occupation teacher. Teacher can be viewed as a higher class in school, but not in any other places, students will listen to the teacher since they are in school. Some viewed teacher is just a person who gives them work and they don’t need to do it, because a teacher is not a ruler and works they gave them are not laws they need to follow, so they argue with them. In my opinion, i view teacher as a occupation with respect, we are all high school student, we know whats wrong whats right, we do what make sense. We know teacher giving us work is not something that harm us, so in the case of the student telling the teacher that “this (the USA) is a free country, so I don’t have to do what you tell me…” I will probably think he/she is wrong (if the teacher is requesting the student to do something like school work or assisting others) . It’s not about where, it’s about how you view this occupation with how much respect.

24 10 2013
4

freedom is the free will to do given in accordance to the laws’ options. she definitely isn’t right. the USA is more of Heteronomous and autonomous and so is my country. it is better when the relation with your teacher, coach or parent is friendly. these people kind of have power of us but for the best so they are also under Heteronomous. students should therefore be respectful and submissive to their authority.

24 10 2013
7

In my opinion, freedom is like if there is something important, we don’t have to listen everything to the leader of a city or a country. We can have our own ideas and take a vote. The leader can’t decide everything because it is a free society. Also, we are not controlled by others. We can kindly do things we want to do which is not against the law. For the example of the student, in my mind he is wrong. To teach student is the responsibility of a teacher and it is not wrong. And also it is everyone’s duty to have education during student career. Also, it is not the real meaning of freedom which is what the student said. So I think anyway, the student shouldn’t do that to the teacher.
For the combination, it is like a group which the people get along to each other and will make a decision when something needs to be decided. I think America is heteronomous. Though it is free in the USA, this country still needs laws to lead citizens. Freedom just means people can vote for something important. In my country china, it is the same as America.
For the relationship of a student and others, I think that student should follow them because a student is still young and sometimes they can not decide something rightly. But if someone thinks that student is fall under, I wanna say that it is totally wrong. Anyone is fair to each other. There is no one under fall of anyone else.
A student sometimes should listen to adults when the adult have lots of experience of something as the student doesn’t. At this time students should follow because adults can lead them to the right way. I think it is reasonable because adults always have better and more experience than students.

24 10 2013
20

I think freedom is people can do whatever he want to do.Sometime our freedom is defined by the legal systems, and different legal systems give us different levels of freedom depending upon which one we stand under.In America freedom is important,American like freedom .But get the balance between personal freedom,social order and ecological integrity right, and the vast majority of citizens can live happily with moderate personal freedom and minimal constraints.so they still have something can’t do!we have to make choices between conflicting freedoms

24 10 2013
22

The us is a free country but when a students agrees to join a certain school he has o obey to the rules of he school which ofcourse includes listening to teachers, so the student is wrong not to listen to the teacher. The us falls under heteronomous. Even tough the us is considered to be a free country it also has it own laws that people have to follow, I agree with heteronomous just like my country, you have to listen to what th older person tells you because its a sign of respect and they are older, more experienced but only listen to the ones that respect themselves.

24 10 2013
17

I disagree with her statement. America is definitely a country of liberty where everyone has their own voice. However, as a student, she does not have the right to say much thing to a teacher. Majorty of the teachers and parents advice their students/children by telling them no. Thus, by replying to a teacher with such statement is disrespectful. USA is an autonomous country. Most of the people here live with the idea of “follow your heart”. Therefore, as a result, people in USA rules themselves. My country is hetronomous. All of the people in our country live under the rules of the “elders”. The elders have the authority and power to control the younger generations. The relation between a student and a teacher also falls under hetronomous because teachers have the ability to control the students with their authority as a teacher. A student should only take teachers and parents request/command when it does good to him. If the request helps to mature a student, the student should obey without any complains.

24 10 2013
19

Freedom is a state of being able to do whatever as you wish.
The student who responded that wasn’t right by my ideas because i dont think a child should disrespect a person older that his/her age.
In life,it is good to have different laws governing your life either heteronomous,autonomous and theonomous if you are a believer; this is the only way to live in the society with good relationships with everyone.
Usa is heteronomous in my opinion.
My country uses the heteronomous law to satisfy everyone, they need to consult different people to know their views and put a certain law in order and they also use the autonomous law because it is a country of believers.
It is always good to use the heteronomous law between a student and a teacher or a coach because they understand each other’s views and they fond something that would be good and doesnt opress anyone of them.

24 10 2013
1

In my personal opinion, your student was incorrect. You can be free, but still have laws to follow in your own respective country. To my understanding, you can follow all three of the laws in Ravi Zachariah’s lecture. People who believe in God try their best to follow his law, but at the same time… they also have to follow their countries laws (unless, of course, they are breaking their gods law). I think people who are following their own self law believe that they know what is best for themselves. America is a mixture of these three. Observing history, it’s hard to classify a large group of people under one definition. The USA is a free country, but we do have laws for our citizens to follow, making us a heterononous society. I’m not really sure if the relationship between a student and a teacher/coach/parent really falls under any of these categories. Yes, we follow their rules and abide by (most) of them, but we do still have free choice/will. Some kids choose to act upon their gift of free will. However, that isn’t always the best decision. We are given a choice in this life and I think we should choose wisely. Whether that be to follow your parents rules or the governments rules.

24 10 2013
12

I’ve heard alot of people say that. In my opinion it makes some sense but it being free or “freedom” does not mean that you are allowed not to obey your authority and if theres one law or rule to listen to, its complying to your authority. The US might be a free country but theres some laws to it. I think for the most part its autonomous because alot of the laws are voted for by the people. Anyways any body that comes too CCA signs and agrees to obey all the rules listed and listening to your authority is one of them so why not just do that. You might not agree with but you have to follow it. A reasonable way or the easiest way is to say yes and not argue. And if you’re not an American citizen then “freedom” as the americans say it does not apply to you.

24 10 2013
116

Freedom is deceptive. I think most people think that freedom means we can do whatever we want without consequences. This is not true. “When I move out of my parents house I can do whatever I want!” But only eating junk food and no vegetables means you gain 20 pounds. Staying up till 4 am every night means you’re a zombie at school or at a job. Freedom means we can make our own decisions and get the consequences for them, good or bad. Freedom means that we get to choose our own rules and follow those. I don’t have to take the rules from the government, or my parents but I do still need rules and restrictions.

I would also make a distinction between freedom and “I won’t do what you tell me.” Freedom is an ideal, something that people have died for. “I won’t do what you tell me” is an attitude that, honestly, comes from self-centered people. I think at lot of people hide behind the idea of ‘freedom’ but really are motivated by self centered reasons like laziness or stubbornness. Having freedom doesn’t give you an excuse to be pigheaded or rude.

24 10 2013
10

For the freedom, I think it represents that citizens have their own power to vote for something. In this way, there is no one can control others and compel others to do what he wants to do. So it reflects the freedom.
By the example of the student, I think he is totally wrong because freedom doesn’t mean he can do whatever against the teacher because it is responsibility for the teacher to teach student. The student can’t refuse the teacher by showing the freedom.
I look at the situation of America and I think that America now is heteronomous because this country still has a leader and also the people of government make the laws to make sure people not get to do something wrong that make the society in a mess. Also the combination means a group which people stick together and make decision to do something important.
In my country, the system is heteronomous because it still have a leader and a group of people to make laws.
To talk about the relationship between students and others, I think students should follow the ideas of others most of time because usually others have more experience than the students and they know what to do and what not to do. But this doesn’t mean that the student is under fall of others because the world is fair and everyone has the same value to live in the world. I think if sometimes need to make a decision about something, the student can listen to others first and then decide what to do. Sometimes listening to the suggestions of others is also a good way to grow up.

24 10 2013
11

I think America is a mixed country, and China the same, The only deference is that how mush freedom and how much self-control do them have. And how a country’s law control a person? They use one of the most smart and the worst idea in the world-punishment. The basic idea is you need to paid for what you do. Because of the fear of punishment, people will control themselves a lot. And I also think that morality is also one of the most reason in the world, because of the control of your mind, thinking about the idea of:”Is it right or wrong? Will I get punished by god? It’s against my morality!” that’s what people think when them want to do something bad. But this idea will also create some people to against the law; may be they will against their morality for once, and they didn’t get caught, they will think to do it for next time. The reason is:”No one stop me to do it! God didn’t punish me for that!”, and it will become worse to become” they can’t catch me, i can run away from this!” this is how people i the jail think. And this idea also goes to kids, kids will become bad if his or her family didn’t stop them to do things wrong. For kids, father and mother should become a “god” to love his kids and punish his kids at same time in kid’s life, And the only reason for kids to listen order from his or her parents is still morality, there is some ideas to explain why:
1. I was born by my parents
2. i was raise by my parents
3, human nature
4. basic kindness
kids are following their parents are almost from these reasons.

24 10 2013
14

Freedom: freedom is related to liberty which means that is the idea of the right or the ability of the individual to do what he wants by giving the right for the liberties of others. To me she or he might right soon as you understand the meaning of freedom. You have to make choice of one of those Theonomous, Heteronomous, Autonomous or choice one side to follow you can’t be all at the same time either follow Theonomous or other .I think usa is heteronomous because use it`s free country but it doesn`t mean everyone in usa believes or argue to use rule. They are same people which are theonomous and autonomous. those people most of time they were In trouble because they are against the use rules and those people most of time make bad decision like to involve in shouting people all those bad stuff . my country doesn`t mention autonomous because it`s more dangerous to people in society think about it , if everyone make own rule that happen? The relation between student and a parent/teacher/coach form a community and the most community follow heteronomous low it doesn’t `t fall under because everyone has own opinion or he is own judgment to those rules they only time you know it’s reasonable when the student make sense to his or her suggestion




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